The best storytellers do two things — make you feel something and bring you into the world they built. Jordan Studdard is one of those people. You've never met someone like him on the internet
Today’s guest is Jordan Studdard. It was a friend of mine, Rohan Kumar, who sent me his profile. After watching the first video, I was in awe. The storytelling, set design, and editing were fantastic. Jordan is a world-builder. He takes a common question and turns it into a masterful video on the internet. He's respected by the OGs in the space and the up-and-comers. This is someone you should know.
As always, before we get to the episode, here are three things about Jordan that you should know
Check out Jordan on TikTok and Instagram!
[00:00:00] Danny: Hey, I'm Danny Desatnik and this is a podcast all about creators, but I'm not just talking about any creators. I'm talking about captivating storytellers and masterful videographers and generational writers. These are people I feel are underrated and people I want to theoretically invest in, no matter how big or small their audience is.
In today's guest is Jordan Studdard. It was actually a friend of mine, Rowan Kumar, who sent me his profile after watching the video. I was in awe. The storytelling, the colors, the world that he builds, the as set design, the editing, they were all fantastic. And it drew me in from the first, second until the end.
And what's even more impressive is that he brings the worlds together with animation, set design and storytelling and he's the one doing everything. He's building all of his sets, you know, if the animation is needed, that's him coming up with the stories, that's him. And it's something that I haven't seen on TikTok because here is someone who is essentially three agencies or three different companies all in one.
And as always, before we get to the episode, here are three things about Jordan that I think you should know. He went to school for animation. And once you watch his videos, he won't be surprised. His studio was based at a 368. The Creator Collective started by Casey Neistat in New York, and he reads more fiction than anyone that I know.
It's no surprise that he's an incredible storyteller. And with that, let's get to the good stuff. Here's my conversation with Jordan Studdard.
tell me this, what was the first creative project you remember working on?
[00:01:28] Jordan: Um, the first one I think that had any like meaning was, around like, it was like fourth or fifth grade, I was sitting on the couch and I was like, it was like a summer day and like, but every, all my friends were like outta town or something and I was so bored and I was just watching cartoons and it's the type of board when you're a kid and you just like, kind of scream cuz you're just like, blah.
Like, you just don't know what to do. And my mom was like, stop like whining. I was like, I don't know what to do, mom. And she was like, well, if you don't know what to do then like you watch, you're like watching these cartoons, like why don't you just draw your own cartoon? And I was like, huh, I get fine.
Whatever. And so I think I was watching like Grim Adventures of Billy & Mandy and like some, a couple other cartoons at the time. I just like started drawing. I found pictures of the characters and I just started drawing them. And then I looked at the drawings and I was like, Whoa, this is, this looks like the show.
I was like, Wait, I think I can draw these, these little characters. And then started thinking like, okay, what if I drew my own?
[00:02:26] Danny: Wait, so you're saying before that moment you didn't realize you could draw and your mom's just like, go draw this thing. If you're annoyed and you're like, okay fine to show you ....
[00:02:33] Jordan: Yeah.
[00:02:35] Danny: Really! That's how you found out you could draw?
[00:02:38] Jordan: Yeah, I used to draw these things. I would call 'em like my designs and it was like, I would draw a triangle and then I would draw like a triangle around that triangle, and then I would like outline it again and again and again and again and make kind of like a geometric, It was just a pattern really.
But it wasn't until then that I was like, I think that connection was made, that I like these cartoons that I like, that have stories behind them. And characters, it's like, Oh, I can make them up too. And then it's like, oh, I can make my own show. It's like, oh, I can make the characters that I want to see with like the super powers or whatever that I, that I like.
I really was into like superheroes and this idea of like, I loved, uh, like the human torch and um, fire superpower, like ice superpower. And I had this like characters of like fire and ice and I would, I would like draw them all the time and they would do adventures. So...
[00:03:28] Danny: You're not George R. Martin, are you?
[00:03:30] Jordan: No, no, at that time it wasn't as complicated as that and, uh, a lot less bloody. So...
[00:03:35] Danny: At the time, did your parents, encourage it? Did they allow you to keep getting books and colors or do what you needed to do with your curiosity once they saw, like our kid can actually draw is a really talent, he's really talented in this area?
[00:03:49] Jordan: Yeah, my parents have always been really good about, like just encouraging me to do my thing. It's one reason, like I'm, I'm really lucky to, to have them. and they, I think my mom especially, like she always did like some watercolor paintings and, and different things. She's always been very creative.
So she, we always had like colored pencils and crayons and paint supplies around the house and we were always doing little craft projects and stuff. My mom like painted, my room as a kid and like made little, she'd do little drawings for me and stuff and so, yeah, I think she was always, always encouraging in that way.
[00:04:24] Danny: Okay. One that's super cool usually you hear parents scolding their kids for drawing on the walls. Now it's almost like the parents saying, You know what, now, like, I'll encourage you to use the canvas.
[00:04:34] Jordan: I think it comes and goes too. It's like when I was eight, they were like, Yeah, yeah, do everything, Do whatever you want. And then I think when I got to be like 20 or something, they were like, Are you sure you could? You could maybe be like an architect where it's like, you can still draw... but, and then now they're like, okay, you're doing your thing. Like you can like keep on,
[00:04:52] Danny: You know, what's interesting to think about is you have people like yourself that can really translate an idea or a world or even an image or something that you see from the visual senses to actually on paper for it to exist. Like your filter, it feels like, is quite transparent. Like it just comes right through it.
You see it and you'll draw it the way it is. Whereas, like for most kids, and especially myself, it's like, Oh, I see a sheep. I can clearly identify all the elements of the sheep, but when I draw the sheep, it's like a cloud with a line and maybe a human face. And so it, it's so interesting how like some people can have a, a transparent filter to go from mindset or imagination to paper, and then some can do it so well.
I'm always interested like, how, how does that happen? And obvi, that's probably like an evolutionary thing, but it's fascinating to me.
[00:05:39] Jordan: Yeah. I think that's sort of like if I had a superpower, like that's kind of, it's like I can see something that's not real or it's not even there yet, and I can see it like very clearly, and the rest of it is just kind of chasing that vision to make it a reality. And so, a lot of times it can also be a burden where it's like, I can't get it outta my head until it's done. but yeah, it's like, that's kind of what my stories and things are about is just making those real. And then it's like once, and then once you see those things, then you can add onto it.
You can, do your own stuff with that, with you saying that. I'm curious how you feel about, um, AI. I had a friend who can't draw, and he was saying that AI is so interesting to him because he can type in like sheep standing on a cloud and now he can finally, he can finally see it. He can finally make that image real. Which is something like, I've always kind of just been able to do like just as a talent, but I'm curious how that makes you feel.
[00:06:33] Danny: Yeah, I think it's powerful for sure. There's two sides here. I think there's two sides, when something is innovated to the point where there's no friction, there's the one side where it's like, oh, this is amazing. Like for decades, I've been trying to figure out how to get this vision on a wall, and I've paid people millions of dollars to do it, but now this thing is actually here.
Yet on the other side, it devalues the stuff I think that you do. Like what you do is great because there's multiple layers to it. So there's the storytelling, there is the animation. You build your own prop. So everything that goes into it I think is a mote for you as an artist. But to answer your question here, I think actually this is the best way to go about it. I always found, and even today I'm like, I have a bad memory. I don't think I have a bad memory. I just think that I rely on my phone so much and I've come to rely on my phone so much that. I don't need to remember stuff, so that's why I have a bad memory.
But I don't actually think I have, like growing up, I don't think I had a bad memory. This is just the way I'm conditioned. So I wonder if now like what that'll do, cuz that has to have some type of effect, whether good and bad.
[00:07:37] Jordan: Yeah. True. I think, like for me right now, the, the programs are at a point where I am, am more frustrated by them in the sense that like their vision is different than mine. If I draw you a picture of a sheep on a cloud, It's gonna look different than if I type in sheep on a cloud.
And so sometimes, like I want to use AI to help, where I'm like, oh yeah, give me a picture of a house that's like, with a sheep on top of the house and I can draw you that. But the AI gives me something different and I'm like, I'm frustrated with it, whatever. But I've started using it now in my videos to just like make stuff that I would use like stock images for.
Like I need a table with a red tablecloth, and then I just like generate those and then boom, pop 'em in the video and then we go.
[00:08:20] Danny: You know what it reminds me of, and I know you're a big Pixar fan, it's when like Pixar goes through the transition, going from actually having to write and actually having to draw on single sheets of paper and then putting that multiple times through, let's say a camera per se, in order to capture the shot.
Now they're able to, again, you take your pen pencil and then through technology very quickly you can get to your vision. For someone like yourself as an artist, it helps other people see what you are seeing much quicker than you having to go through the whole process yourself, storyboarding everything out, drawing it yourself. If you can just, just say, Hey, here's what this scene's gonna look like. Here's this character, here's the whole. To someone who's not artistic, I'd say I am artistic. But if you go to, let's say management at Adobe, if you're trying to work a brand deal and you're like, hey guys, here's what I'm thinking of. It's better than just saying, Hey, here's what I'm thinking of. But it doesn't have to put you in a position to draw everything yourself before they even say yes or no.
[00:09:15] Jordan: Yeah. definitely. I find that with like non-creative people, they just need to kind of see something that's in the same like general idea, and then they can be on the same page as you, and then you can execute it to whatever your vision may be.
[00:09:28] Danny: Well, here, talking about this, how do you find you work with brands? Because I've seen some of your videos and they're awesome. Like, back market, the video that you did with the inspector case was amazing and I didn't even realize that was a brand deal. It reminds me of like branded entertainment. So then from a brand deal perspective, how do you go about this, where that is the problem? It's like you have this idea in your mind and you're telling people all the time, you're like, hey, this is what we can do.
This isn't what I think we can do. But they're like, No, no, no. We have our own idea. How do you go about the relationship between you, your videos and brand when you have such a strong idea in your mind, but it's probably hard for them to see it until a finished project happens.
[00:10:07] Jordan: Yeah. it's tricky. I think any good art is like made with constraints. I worked in advertising for three or four years before I, I started doing like my own TikTok. So I kind of know the system and I know what they're looking for. I know that if, my communications with the brand, if they're sticking on one topic, they probably need to hit that to make their manager or boss happy.
So as long as I can curve my story to hit that point, and then I can get away with a lot more. And so it's a little bit of like give and take of like learning. And like realizing how the, how the brand works, like the metrics they need to hit. But also, like, I don't really work with brands unless they're kind of already, you know, on board with my videos.
Um, I get hit up by a lot of like, whatever brands are like, hey, oh yeah, we are like a sunglasses company and we sell sunglasses. You, you have a face, like want to make a video about these sunglasses? And it's like, nah, you don't, you don't know what I'm like, what I'm trying to do here, whatever. I think the brands that come to me and they're like, they're like, Wow, we, we really like your stories.
We have a, product that needs this story to be told, like, let's work together. Or even this last, like, I just did a couple videos with Red Bull and they have this, they had a big event and they don't just, they have plenty of videographers that do event recap footage. They don't need that. What they need is this story of their event to be told.
The story of the participants in the event and what it takes to be a part of that. And then also it's an incredible event, so why not tell an incredible story? And that's kind of where my job comes in to, make these things a little more fantastical than every day.
[00:11:46] Danny: I liked how you worded that. How do we give our product a story? I wonder if that small change, if every creator went to a brand and said, hey, I want to help give your product a story that isn't, or that isn't being told.
I wonder if that would change the game versus, Hey, I wanna work with you. Hey, my audience is like this and I have this, and then this is what we do here and then that what we do here.
And like, Oh, I can give you this exposure and like, and, and this retention. That's such an elegant way of putting it. And when you said that to me, I was like, Oh, that as a marketer, which I guess I am as a marketer, I was like, oh, this is cool yeah, I definitely want a story behind my product. Cuz that to your point, as you were saying about building worlds, like that's the jumping off point to continue to build worlds and continue to get more people into your product.
That's powerful, dude.
[00:12:29] Jordan: Yeah. I think people who build businesses and build products like they're so into what they have made. They're so passionate about it. And as a business builder and a product designer, you know the value that your product can bring to the world and you know how important it is and how many lives hopefully can change and make for the better.
It's like being so excited, like it's like having a crush and you're so excited about your crush and you wanna like tell everybody how great they are and everybody's like, she's great. Whatever, she's like, pretty, It's cool.
And you're like, No, you don't understand. Like, she lights up the room. So then you write a song to tell this, like the full feeling of like how that feels. You make a movie a whole show, a love story to show you know, what that means to you. And so that's, my job is to make the love story, to write the little song or the video that really translates how, you know, products or brands or whatever, can be felt out in the world.
[00:13:25] Danny: I've been diving deep on Tyler, the creator, and I feel like whoever listens to my podcast in the next couple of weeks is going to hear me reference Tyler all the time. Cuz everything I'm doing right now is Tyler the creator.
And what he said, one of the simplest but most profound things about how he creates and he goes. As an artist, I experience many moments and many of these moments mean a lot to me. And I know that these moments also mean a lot to other people. So I want to take a moment and build a world around that moment, which becomes either a song or a piece of clothing or an album. And I'm gonna do it in such way that how someone else receives that moment can feel what I felt initially.
So you're essentially going from like grave to grave, but someone else's mind, like the cradle of your idea. Going to someone else's mind and then planting that moment in their minds, it's like doing what Elon wants, but with art.
It reminds me a ton of how you're talking about this, because you're just translating when maybe other people can't, in a way that will allow so many others to understand what one person maybe wanted to but couldn't explain.
[00:14:29] Jordan: Yeah. I think when you like happen upon a story or an idea that can affect multiple people, but that resonates with multiple people. I was listening to a podcast of the writer of, uh, I think it's Good Omens. But he was just, talking about the way he comes up with ideas and he's saying that he goes to a party and he tells. So like my last video was like, uh, one of the last ones was this like lost things video. Like where did the lost things go? So he says he goes to a party and he would ask his friend like, hey, I have this idea about like where the lost things go. What do you think about this? And if they say like, Oh, cool, sounds interesting. but anyway, like, what else is going on?
You know, they don't really, they don't care about it. Then he trashes that idea. But if he asks somebody like, hey, where do you think, like the last things go, I'm kind of working on this story. And they go, oh my God, I always wonder where my AirPod went. I always wonder where that my wallet goes.
Yeah, actually, like, maybe they go yada, yada. And then he goes to another friend. And if he can get three friends to not only kind of accept the idea, but also elaborate on the idea and add their own, be like, oh man, I had always kind of thought about that. Then he knows that. It's like, that's an idea. that Resonates not just with him, but with multiple people. And that means probably a lot more people are waiting for that to happen too.
I did a video a long time ago about like the keeper of secrets, who's like a really tall friend of mine and I had a lot of tall people reach out and be like, in the video, it's like he doesn't play basketball, he doesn't, he's not like a fashion model.
In this one he is, tall enough to where he can hide secrets where nobody can get to them. So I had a lot of tall people reach out to me and be like, oh my God. Like that's such funny, like everybody thinks that I just play basketball, but like, this is, thank you for your take on, this sort of life of uh, being a tall person.
So...
[00:16:18] Danny: That's so cool. You said the book is the Omens?
[00:16:22] Jordan: I think it's Good Omens is a TV show. I'll send you the, the, podcast or something after this.
[00:16:27] Danny: For sure dude. Okay, well then I gotta swing that question on you. How do you decide what ideas to run with? Cuz I bet you probably come up, come up with ideas all the time.
[00:16:35] Jordan: I think now it's that I use that process. I'll run it by people and see how they, see how they feel. cuz I think you can't, if you sit with your idea alone for too long, then it might not hit the same way you, you think it does, but I also, I only tell like close friends or people I know, people I trust that I can like gauge their reaction off of.
I think when you reveal an idea too early, and then strangers are like, Oh, that's a terrible idea. I don't know, like the same, the story of the tall person. If I ask a stranger and I'm like, what do you think? And they're like, ah, that's stupid. Anyway, what's another idea?
And it's like, Oh, well maybe they're just a short person and they've never had to deal with that, and they never like think in that way, so they don't care. So you gotta kind of know who to run ideas off of. But for me it's like a lot of asking questions of, kind of like when a little kid asks you like, why are tortilla chips triangles?
And you go, oh, actually, I don't know. And then it's like there's probably a reason you could look it up or you could just make up your own where it's like, oh, well maybe there used to be square tortilla chips and circle tortilla chips. And the circle tortilla chips tried to like sabotage the square factory and they didn't quite destroy everything.
They just ended up splitting the machine in half. So now all the squares got cut in half diagonally. And became triangles and like, you know, whatever.
That's not the best story, but that's a that's like an idea. So it's just kinda like following those little pathways.
[00:18:00] Danny: See here, this is the coolest thing is when you started with squares and circles. Automatically, my mind went to geometry and I was like, oh, I guess if a square has sex with a circle, they'll make a triangle. Like that's immediately where my mind went to. And you had this whole world planned out about people sabotaging another person's factory, but they like, that's so cool how quickly you pull so many elements into your world.
[00:18:27] Jordan: Well, I mean, we could even take your idea like maybe there's square dad, circle dad, they have a triangle kid. They don't believe, they're like, Oh my God, what do we do at this? The kid gets bullied at school. Doesn't, thinks they'll never be anything. They decide to become a businessman. Build the biggest, chip empire in the world, they make all the chips triangles, because that's their favorite shape. That's the shape that nobody believed in. So that's the shape they're gonna give to the whole world. So it's like all these stories are happening too much in my brain all the time.
[00:18:56] Danny: That's crazy, so the funny thing is, I asked a mutual friend of ours, Grace Wells. I was like, hey, Jordan's coming on the pod. If you were to ask him any question or if you wanted to know anything, what would you ask? What would you want to know? And she goes, it's crazy how he never struggles to come up with ideas and characters.
It's almost, he like, he deals with the opposite of creative block. There's just too much creativity. And so what do you do in a world where there's so many ideas that come to the top? Like how do you deal with that as a human? Cause I feel like that would quite overwhelming that I feel like many people won't relate to that, but how do you deal with overwhelming thoughts that you're always thinking in stories?
[00:19:35] Jordan: Yeah, it's scary sometimes. , like, it's a weird, thing. it's like a place in my mind that's like, a big soup. It's just like a bunch of weird things, like all kind of jumbled together. And that's kind of where these ideas sort of come from.
It's like, a place in my mind where it's like everything's sort of just kind of floating around and connected. It's like a not like a flow state, but it's, a type of thinking and I have to like, stay out of that. I can't go, into that sort of zone.
Because if I started thinking about too many stories, like for me if I come up with a good idea and I know that it's good enough, I will pursue it until the very end. Like there's a, lighthouse story that I have about this lighthouse in, Chesapeake Bay. I've had this idea for a year, and now I think this next month is finally gonna be possible for us to do it.
We tried last winter, but they had already taken the boats outta the water. We couldn't rent a boat. yeah, like, I'm gonna lose hundreds of dollars on this idea, but I have to get it done. It's way too much effort. But it has to be done. So sometimes I just, if I think of too many ideas, I just write 'em down and I tuck 'em away.
And I try to get out as much as I can, but it's really like focusing on the ones, the ideas I do have, because those ideas also don't become anything until you know, they're finished, they're out in the world.
[00:20:53] Danny: For sure. Have you ever joined or created, let's call it a writer's room other creators?
[00:20:59] Jordan: No, I haven't. I would like to, nothing that formal, but I have like, working at this, I kind of work out of 368 right now .In New York City and there's like a lot of creators and stuff that come through here. And so a lot of time, like even our friend Grace who you just mentioned, like I'll run ideas by her a bunch cuz I'm just curious what she thinks.
My friend Reese, who I did a popcorn video with, he kind of has a writer's mind, so I'll run ideas by him. But yeah, not as many. I would love to find like more kind of story driven and creators. there's not a lot of them that I'm in, like contact with. I think another girl who was on the podcast, Madeline Turner, like we're mutuals on, like internet friends, but we, she's in LA I'm in New York.
Like we don't really talk that much. There's not a lot of people here that are doing kind of the same sort of stories that I do.
So if you're out there, hit me up.
[00:21:51] Danny: I have a couple ideas I honestly have a couple ideas of people that I can introduce you to, but one of the things that drew me to you, man, is that one, the storytelling's crazy.
I, I've said this to you in person, and I don't even know why this jumped to my mind, but I was like, you're the adult, Dr. Seuss.
I can watch your videos. And I was like, oh, there's something behind this. Oh, I can kind of see where this story came from, but, oh, it's so, it's illustrated and it's illuminated in such a way that I would've never seen the world. And it's with these random characters such comfort.
Like I don't have to think about the characters yet. I know there's a bunch of depths. But then learning more about you, man, where you have the animation background, you have the competency and the ability to build sets, I guess, through your upbringing. And you have the storytelling now, that intersection dude, I haven't found any other creator. At that intersection. And I think it's so cool that you have these three streets leading into this, like one intersection.
[00:22:44] Jordan: Thanks, man. Yeah. I don't know what to say about it, it's just kinda how it is. Yeah.
[00:22:48] Danny: It's cool. It's cool cuz it gives you such a unique angle. And I remember hearing you talk, this might have been on another podcast, and I think you were saying something like, your audience doesn't really know you because you're always the one to start your story, but then there's no one else there.
How do you think about, again, being a creator in the way that you are and then moving forward, do you want to include yourself in more of the content? Is is it gonna change so that you are more of a focal point?
[00:23:15] Jordan: Yeah, I think so. I think it'll, start to lean more that way. I think as I think of like how to build like a community, like a crew of people that are down for these little stories and are, are interested in like, what we're kind of making here that you know, the best way to kind of rally, rally the troops is to have one person, one captain of the ship.
And so, I make the stories, I'm the best person for the job. So like I want to kind of include myself more so that people know, like, and can trust me in my name to be like, Oh, if, Jordan Studdard is telling the story, this is gonna be a good story. Like, let's, watch, let's listen. I have friends that are more lifestyle creators and TikTokers YouTubers, and it's just about, it's just about them and their daily life. And that does lead to like, people come up to them on the street and like in a way that's too familiar.
Yeah, that maybe it's just like, when the audience knows you that well, then they kind of feel like they have, like access to your life. And sometimes that can be tricky. So I think for me, I, do kind of like having my art as a little bit of like an in between . Me and my audience can both look at the story and like together be like, Wow, that's fun, cool.
You know, I can go home and like it can be separate. And also like, it doesn't always have to be a part of my life. And so hopefully that way too, that burnout is like less of an issue because, you know, it's not just, it's not just me. It's like later on down the line, there can be kind of a studio, there can be, know, a business around it so that, it doesn't just revolve around me.
[00:24:46] Danny: Are there people that are core? To every video that you work with today? Like do you have a team that works behind the scenes, Not even from a business perspective, but just creatives even that you go to for every video?
[00:24:57] Jordan: No. Right now it's kind of all me. So, yeah, I'm all the departments , but that's kind of the next step is now that like there's more brand deals coming in, there's more, video ideas to be done. I need some help.
And so I'm starting to kind of like assemble a bit of a crew. I need, looking for set designers. Producers, lighting people, and, um, I've kind of got some assistance I think I'm gonna work with on the next one, just to have some extra hands. That's phase two.
[00:25:25] Danny: Do you have like university students who are in media or in film and animation reach out to you and say, Yo, like I wanna work with you. Can I somehow intern with you?
[00:25:34] Jordan: Yeah. sometimes, yeah. I've got a couple that are like . I don't know, they're like, I wanna work for you. And I'm like, great. I'm in New York, like, what can you do? And they're like, I'm in Kansas. And, uh, I don't know, I can't do anything . I go, or people just re, they'll like send me a DM on Instagram and they're like, I wanna work with you and their things private and I can't see anything. And I'm like, I don't even know. Like if you're good at what you do, like, I don't know.
[00:25:58] Danny: Yeah. Well there's a video. There's a video idea right there.
[00:26:01] Jordan: Yeah, true .
[00:26:02] Danny: Who are the lost creatives or who are the lost minds that could have had this incredible life if their accounts were public?
[00:26:08] Jordan: We're public. Yeah. They just stay too private. I mean, people are sometimes nervous about their, their creativity or whatever, and that's, that's okay. But if you wanna work with me, send me a DM or an email
[00:26:19] Danny: And make your profile public. Yeah.
[00:26:21] Jordan: Yeah.
[00:26:22] Danny: What I think is so cool about what you do in terms of your videos is you're always including your friends. You're always including people that either mean a lot to you or have a relationship with you. And it's cool cuz to me, I found out about so many creators that I had never heard of just by watching your videos.
And it's cool cause you're, curating these individuals in various different ways. it's that based on that reaction I guess that's not, that wasn't conscious. But it's cool how like, again, you're bringing these different characters, these characters are actual creators and then it allows people like curious, that are like myself to just go out and keep exploring.
[00:26:57] Jordan: Yeah, I hadn't heard somebody being like that. They had found, you know, multiple other creators through my video, so that's cool to hear. I'm glad, cuz that's kind of like an alternate purpose of this, but I think like, kind of how you do, where you find interesting creators and so you do a podcast with them, there's no strict gain in that you're just interested.
You want to hear their story. So like, let's do a podcast. I think for me it's the same way I.
I'm interested in this person. I like the idea or the things that they've done like, or whatever, or even just the way they are styled or their look or their kind of what they do about how they go about life. So I wanna make a video about, it's their, like, all different types of Muses.
Like they're just inspiring. And so I'm like, Oh, wow, I see. I can see kind of a story in the way that they do things. Like my friend, Natalia, who I did a video with, like, she does all these Photoshop collages, like, her life is so colorful and so it's like, oh, what is a person who is obsessed with color?
Like what is their, what is their job and how does that life look? That's kind of how I get to the subjects of these video.
[00:27:59] Danny: Have you found commonalities between the people that you get so interested in, or the creatives or the creators that you get so interested in?
[00:28:05] Jordan: Yeah, I think they're courageous. They're not afraid to like do the thing that they love to do. And so that boldness makes for an interesting life. I think people are scared sometimes to do, to like try new things or to wear a certain outfit, but I think the people that I like to work with and, be around are people who, are very, like confident in doing their thing and, aren't afraid to be all about it.
[00:28:34] Danny: Yeah, you know what I like a lot about that and what it reminds me of is when again, doing research for the episode and listening to some other episodes, you had said something like, you wanted to be able to create and execute now versus waiting in the ranks of a Pixar or a Disney.
And I think it's so cool that that's what this like creative, this permission, this content for someone like you affords cuz you can skip all those steps and I bet you you have animators. I bet you there's storytellers, it's people in the brain trust, whatever. If they get ahold of your stuff, it's like, oh wow.
Like I can see where this goes. Or Oh this, I can see this guy in myself or oh, I can see him working with us. I can imagine it just like it's an automatic in by you being. And just doing your own thing without having to flow to the system. I bet you the system's now gonna curtail back to you and be like, Oh, Jordan, we need you here.
Can you please work for us? And you're like, Uh, too expensive. Uh, too much time. Now you guys are boring .
[00:29:27] Jordan: Yeah. Yeah. kind of what I hope, I think people are like, part of my advice to people trying to like start out or do their thing is like a lot of people are waiting to have that chance for people to see, just to pick them out of a crowd and be like, Oh yeah, you, great.
Like, let's do something. But I think a lot of times like we were talking before, people need to see what your vision is. People need to experience it before maybe they're ready to hop on board. And so that's kind of what. What these videos are like, whether that's maybe a movie someday or a TV show or something.
Like, I need to start getting these ideas out there right now so that people can know and get the vibe. And then now we can start to assemble a group of people that that really love these stories and, and love telling them. I've got a couple like musician friends and people that have reached out to me, composers and such that are like, love the music and the style that my stories make.
And so they're like, I'd love to score your videos. Like let's, let's start making something together.
[00:30:27] Danny: Dude, that's epic.
[00:30:29] Jordan: I think that's kind of the hope is to be just to like, put the light out there and then have everybody come to it that are interested in, in what's going on, and then getting like brands and things involved, and then we can all also make a living from making these stories, and then everybody's happy.
[00:30:43] Danny: I feel like that's the pitch that my company, the people that sell hashtag paid services to other brands are like, hey guys, here's what we do. We take stories and music and people and put them together and then we both make money. So you should give us money so that we can make you more money and make us more money.
I dunno how well it sells, but you know what it is though, as a, I'm someone that's definitely more artistic at heart than I am commerce or scale or operator in terms of mind. And that stuff excites me. Where again, you can put different sparks in the same fire, but you'll get a different color or you'll get a different velocity or you'll get a different height of that flame, but you don't know what's gonna come out.
You just have to put them in the room. Which is why I was asking about the writer's room. Cause I was like, oh, I bet you if you're just in a room other creative people to, the stuff that'll come out of it is probably like generational.
[00:31:34] Jordan: Yeah, I would hope so.
Yeah,
[00:31:37] Danny: We gotta find a way.
[00:31:38] Jordan: Yeah, it's just assembling kind of the right group of people too, cuz I think, you have to find people who are on board with the vision, but also understand some of the limitations.
[00:31:47] Danny: Yeah.
Who are the musicians and who are the artists that you'd love to work with or that, that you'd love to score? Future shorts, videos, films, whatever that video media may be.
[00:31:58] Jordan: I don't know. there's a few of them
[00:32:00] Danny: A guy named, Kanye.
[00:32:01] Jordan: There. Yeah. Yeah. Kanye, the guy that, um, is it, Ludwig something...
[00:32:05] Danny: Oh Ludwig Göransson
[00:32:06] Jordan: The guy that's doing all the, All the Manda, Yeah, Ludwig Göransson and all doing the, Mandalorian and a bunch of the other ones his stuff's great. Trent Resner has made some great scores.
But yeah, I mean, I think even right now, like I'm talking to this guy, Bradley Turner Thompson, or Tom, I forget, it's definitely Bradley Turner. I forget the last little name. But, uh, yeah, he's made some great, some really great scores. He was the, um, the score of the last video and now we're gonna start working on something kind of custom together.
So, yeah, there's people that are making great music and it's just let's, like, let's get it heard.
[00:32:41] Danny: Do you know what creator named Madeline Turner.
[00:32:43] Jordan: Yeah, I do.
We're, um, yeah, we're internet friends, so...
[00:32:45] Danny: Sick. So when she came on the pod, she was saying that what she really wants to do in the future is again get some of her favorite artists. When she get, gets to the point where she's directing and creating future films, like full length films, she wants to get some of her favorite artists who have never scored films before have their virgin score experience with her film. And I was like, what a cool way again, of bringing two worlds together, reinforcing the people that you love, but also allowing something beautiful to happen that you might have never experienced. I'm glad to hear you guys are friends cuz I can see like pretty similar waves.
[00:33:21] Jordan: Yeah. I'm definitely interested in what, she's up to and what she's like been, I know she's kind of been, working on, on some bigger projects in the background she's done a lot just with herself and like one, like a desk and one backdrop she's made hold videos.
So, she's definitely got the talent.
[00:33:36] Danny: All right. We need that. We need that Studdard, Turner collab.
[00:33:38] Jordan: I know we, I think next time I'm in LA I might try to reach out to her and see what's, see what's good. If I have the time, we can maybe make something, but...
[00:33:47] Danny: Um, who else or are there other creators right now that you're talking to or looking towards or want to collab with and work with?
[00:33:55] Jordan: There's a couple that I'm like, there's this guy Ben Kalinski, he has like a, he has a mustache and he does, goes on hikes in Vancouver. He's like, do you wanna go on an adventure with me? Too bad you're coming. I'm trying to go out to Vancouver like at the end of this month, and so hopefully we'll be doing a video together.
Uh, there's some other people in LA I'm trying to meet up with. but yeah, I think like any creator who likes my stories or whatever, a lot of that just starts, happens like through the dms. They DM me and they're like, I love your stuff and I. DM them back. I'm like, I love your stuff.
Let's make a video. And so then from there, my videos take a while to make. Sometimes that can be a couple hours of filming, so I do less like chasing down of people or I'm like, please be in my video. And then it's like, you know, they're like, Oh my God, what did I sign up for? So , it's like if you're, if you're down and you've seen my stuff and you kind of know the drill, then at least you know that you're getting a good video out of it.
[00:34:50] Danny: Yeah. with that a ton. You're the one to, manifest ideas, not ask for things to come, like things just happen for you. Cool. Being all spacey that way. But tell me this in terms of, like, you talk about how it takes a while to record or takes a while to actually get, get your videos out.
I know you've had some major viral videos. How do you deal with not getting stuck in a box of that video? Because that video is now the video that's led to tons of growth or tons of new followers.
[00:35:18] Jordan: I don't think I've ever done a part two of a video. I've kind of done like small follow ups to a story. There's one story that I did two of 'em at one time, two videos at one time that were like interconnected. But. Yeah, I think that was something that I was like very aware of, just cuz that's what you see the most of in TikTok is like somebody has a viral video, you know, they wear a funny hat and now every other video they have to have a funny hat and they have to like do the same voice.
And so that's what I loved about this. my friend series and these story videos is that those have the potential to be anything you know, as long as it's my voice and a certain type of tone, then, you know, any story can be told. And so I have suffered a little bit because of it. I think especially like growth wise, like I, don't usually grow a lot.
Um, my videos get plenty of views, but I think people sometimes need to see like the same type of video over and over to trust enough for a follow. but I haven't had, I haven't been pigeonholed into one thing, so I kind of want. If people are following me, I want them to be because they love stories and they love, kind of escaping into this little world that I've made. And not maybe just because they like one character or something, there's a chance that those characters come back. But, that's not the whole reason.
[00:36:35] Danny: So do you think you're underrated as a creator right now?
[00:36:37] Jordan: I don't know. I'm not gonna like, speak to that. People can rate me however they want. I, definitely like, believe in myself and I believe that there's like a lot of, like really fun stories I've got to tell. So hopefully people are on board with them.
But, yeah, I think there's only more to be done.
[00:36:57] Danny: A hundred percent. That was my reaction truthfully, is I was speaking with uh, I guess mutual friend of ours, and I think I asked him, I was like, hey, who's someone in New York that you think more people should know about or something, or created in New York? Do you think more people should know about?
And he's like, Oh, Jordan Studdard. And I was like, Who? And I went to go search up and I was like, Holy shit. Like how haven? The fact that I haven't come across this like pissed me off cuz like, oh, this stuff is amazing and it's so cool, it's so unique. I was like, what? You only have 750, which is 750 K, which obviously a ton on TikTok.
And I was like, oh, you have like 45 k or something like that on IG. And I was like, what? serious? Like that's like someone saying. Hey, Pixar is creating all these insane movies, but box office numbers aren't actually what they should be. And it's like, what's going on? Like where's the disconnect? So
When I ask that, it's cuz I genuinely believe you are like grossly underrated, but good answer, nice like political space so that no one's gonna think your egotistical, but also no one's gonna think that, you're very humbled and you need more help. So I'm a fan. have you ever thought of like children's books or is there a natural next step that you're thinking of?
[00:38:00] Jordan: Yeah, I think children's books is like one of the main ones. I'm trying to figure out how to do that the best way because I think, like we said earlier, I'm not always a fan of like waiting and I know some publishing contracts that's like two or it's like, yeah, we'll release your book in two or three years.
It's like, whoa, man. I don't know. Some are tighter, maybe like a year or so, to me, I'm like, I just finished the video, like, let's put out the, let's put out the book now. So I don't know am f iguring out, you know, what, which publisher to maybe start going for or do I like self-publish it, you know, via Kindle or something where it can be ready the next day.
Or maybe it's like a Patreon type thing where I make like a, kind of children's e-book and maybe if you a subscriber you get, one book a month or something like that.
But yeah, I'm already kind of drawing all these characters and, and making these illustrations anyway, just as sort of like a pre-process before I make the video.
So, they're ready to be turned into, into books and things.
[00:38:55] Danny: But I think that's what's so advantageous of just putting this stuff out on TikTok cuz like that's the proof of concept. If you have people engaging, you have people watching. The video does very well. Your following continues to grow, and you're following nos on whatever platform. They know that this is what you do, like this is why they follow you.
They, they follow you for the stories that you get to tell in a minute, two minutes, whatever may be. if you go to a publisher and a publisher's like, uh, I don't know, okay, maybe we can put it out in a couple of years. Like, what other proof of concept do you want? Everything that you're creating is right in front of them and they can see it instantaneously.
So I'd imagine it'd be super easy to expedite that process or maybe make an exception because of who you are as a creator.
[00:39:36] Jordan: Yeah. I would hope so. I mean, the numbers are there and then also the hundreds of comments that I get that are like, make this a children's book. Oh my God, this will be a great children's book. Well, so there's, there's an audience waiting for 'em.
[00:39:48] Danny: Which video would you want to turn into a children's book first?
[00:39:50] Jordan: The keeper of secrets is one that's on my mind a lot cuz I, I, really love that story and I love, the possibility of it. But I think all of 'em, like all of these, I kind of storyboard out first, so I, draw 'em out and then, yeah, they kind of exist as these illustrated stories to me.
I think some of them really have legs for a long, like a lot of them, like there's a, this color capture series I have. It's like, where do colors get their names? And it's this girl, this girl's job to go find the colors out in the wild. And so I think there's like, there could be a fun series of like every different color, you know, like lightning blue, rainforest orange or something, you know, she has to go to all these weird places to find these colors.
So, yeah. there's some possibilities for sure.
[00:40:30] Danny: Some possibilities, man. This is, this is endless.
[00:40:33] Jordan: See, now you get the problem. There's too many ideas and it's like, I have to focus so that I don't you know, it's also keeping the original kind of engine going of like, these TikTok videos are how I make my money, and they're also like, what drives everything else? So it's, it's not getting too distracted by all these extra ideas, which could be really fun.
But I mean, those could be the... If I pursue those too much, then the whole thing goes down. So,
[00:40:56] Danny: Yeah. Well it reminds me of uh, when I think of like music artists and they have thousands of songs in their vault and will never get to hear those songs, but who knows, maybe one of those songs could have been a Chart topper. Maybe they could have been the song that, I got my favorite job.
Like It, that was the bat, that was the soundtrack of that, or that was the soundtrack of a trip. And so it kind of, pains me, but I kind of like the idea of not knowing the stories that you'll never put out. Cuz it's like, oh, like what if that story was the next thing? But then it gives me. Some imagination, possibility to be like,
Oh, I wonder what his next story would've been like.
And there's just no right answer, which is probably the better way to go about.
[00:41:34] Jordan: Yeah, true. I think right now too, it's, it's a thing that I love. I don't have a lot of like, hidden stories. Everything that I've thought of has been made almost like every, that I've thought of completely or is like on the docket to get made by the end of this year.
So I worry about having, like keeping stories hidden. I think sometimes you never know which ones are gonna be, are gonna, hit just the right way.
[00:41:56] Danny: It sounds like you think of stories all the time. a lot of your life is just stories. And when we met a couple weeks ago, you said that you're a voracious reader like You read everything.
What are you reading right now? What's inspiring you right now?
[00:42:11] Jordan: I just finished, Neil Gaiman's, the Sandman series, which was the first like graphic novel I've ever read. And, um, I really love that because it, kind of follows the main character of the story is dream, um, like a personification of dream. And it's kind of his, think there's like 70 issues or something, but a lot of 'em are like little short stories in themselves.
I've read a bunch of like long fantasy books, Brandon Sanderson, Patrick Rothfuss, all those and those I love, but I've been really drawn to short stories right now because that kind of caters to my medium. It's like, how do you tell an impactful story in 20 pages?
Same thing if like how do you tell an impactful story in 60 seconds on a TikTok?
Yeah, I think those, those are some that I've been really fascinated by.
[00:42:57] Danny: You ever take those skills and essentially put it into a course or make that another element of who you are as a creator? Is this educator...
[00:43:05] Jordan: That's something that me and Grace Wells go back and forth on all the time.
[00:43:08] Danny: No Way.
[00:43:08] Jordan: Or not all the time, but, several. Yeah, just cuz she's been, deep making this course right now. and. I'm curious how it ends up. I see the work she puts into that thing and it's, you know, it's, it's a lot of work and so I think to me.
I think every creator has the other thing that they're working on for Grace. that's the course. I think for me, I think I would be more interested in, children's books or like another creative thing versus a course. But I don't know if, you know, Grace makes millions off of this course, then maybe I'll think about making one myself or, you know, that, that so many people can sign up for.
She has a lot of people asking her, How do I do this? How do I make commercials for my brand? I think for my audience and me, I have more people saying, oh, I love this character. I want more of this character. And so that's kind of my obligation to them is to tell more stories.
[00:44:01] Danny: I feel like the fact that we're in 2022, I'm obligated to ask this, and I hate that. This question just popped into my mind, and I'm sorry if it pisses you off, and I'm sorry if it pisses anyone else off that has listening to this.
Has there ever been that, NFT conversation with all your characters.
[00:44:18] Jordan: Yeah, there has been for sure. Um, I've had a couple NFT buddies that are like, when it all started, they were like, You gotta digitize all these or make min your videos and yada yada. I don't know, maybe they were right and I could have made like millions off of that or whatever.
I've had friends that have made a lot of money off NFTs. But I think for me it always seemed like once you get, start getting a little bit of success or any, I'm not, you know, crazy successful by any means, but once you start getting a little success, there is a lot of opportunities that show up, which is.
Awesome. It's what you've been dreaming for this whole time. But like I said earlier, you start to realize that the opportunities are the things that will like suffocate you, that will like destroy everything. it's like the YouTubers that you love to see and then they disappear for six months and then they come back and they're like, I made an album.
And you're like, I don't, I didn't want music from you like you did cool. Like bicycle tricks or something. Like I just wanted to see more tricks. And then no one watches their album or listens to their album. And then, know, it's like now they can't even make YouTube videos anymore cuz nobody cares about, you know, their videos.
So I think I'm like very cognizant right now of. I am one person who does every job of a production company, does all the pre-production drawings, builds all the sets. There's a certain amount of hours in the day. I have a girlfriend I like, wanna hang out with her. Like right now, NFTs are just, uh, like an extra thing that I'm okay with passing on if it means that, you know, I can still do everything else. So...
[00:45:53] Danny: I think that's the title of this episode is the creator that prioritizes his girlfriend crypto and NFT.
NFTs.
[00:46:01] Jordan: it's true, man. That's true. Yeah.
[00:46:03] Danny: This is the last thing I'll talk about on this NFT topic, but look at someone like Gary Vaynerchuck and I think that's actually what he's doing with his NFT collection, is he's created all these characters and he wants to start building IP around it.
Like he's always referenced Disney when he's talking about his NFT collection. It's like, Oh, look at how Disney built everything around the characters that were created by the team. Why can't I do something different? If there is a captive audience. NFT or whatever that mechanism is, I think it's really cool to project out where you could potentially go. All the things that could be done. There could be a book, there could be a children's book, there could be audio books, there could be a podcast, a movie, a this, a that, this or that, back and forth, whatever it may be.
And it's all purely because you're just building worlds for other people to explore. It's powerful.
[00:46:49] Jordan: Yeah. True there's possibilities there. I think it's, I just quite haven't, haven't seen them the route that works for me.
[00:46:56] Danny: And to your point, it's so easy for me without skin in the game to be like, oh, Jordan, have you tried this? Man, dude, you know what you should do next? Dude, have you seen this? And you're like, Yo, you have no skin in the game. Like, it's my mental health, it's my wellness, it's my life, it's my wellbeing. And I think that's the one thing that I've come to realize of when working with creatives, regardless if they're creators or just any other creatives, it's so easy. To be the person in the backseat being like, you know who you should do. Oh, if you thought of this dude, you gotta do this. And it's like, yeah, but you don't have skin in the game.
If your, livelihood tied to their livelihood, like, I would be much more guarded of what I say to you. For example, if we first met, and I'm just throwing all these ideas out at you, so I think it's a really good nugget on your end that opportunities could actually be the death of a creator or a creative.
[00:47:43] Jordan: Yeah. Absolutely. I think that's what a lot of, like younger creatives don't always realize, too. It's like, yeah, success can sometimes be the downfall you didn't see coming.
[00:47:54] Danny: For real. For real. For real.
[00:47:55] Jordan: You can say whatever you want to me. I'm gonna keep doing my thing . Um, I think like, there's sort of like a, there's a bit of Texas, I'm from Texas, and there's like, there's sort of that suspicion I think of, um, you know, anybody from New York or LA big city folks come through and it's like, a lot of talk and not a lot of doing.
And so I think just the way I was raised and, and the way I do things is, by doing them first and then we'll talk about 'em later.
[00:48:20] Danny: Where in Texas are you from?
[00:48:21] Jordan: From like central Texas, close to Austin, New Braunfels is the small town.
[00:48:25] Danny: Is there a creative community in that area or even just in, in the area at large, Let's call it in Austin, that you can point to, to say, Oh, there's a lot of cool things coming outta that space.
[00:48:34] Jordan: I think there's some definitely creativity in Austin. That's the most creative place in Texas. I think American Baron even moved down there recently. Somebody was saying, obviously Rogan and you know, that whole crew.
And there's a big film industry. There's a lot of art in Austin. when I grew up, the small town I was from, which is kind of like a medium town now, which is funny, but there were like two video guys in the town. It was me and Jordan theme if I wasn't working on the video, then Jordan was working on the video.
And so. that was the, competition, you know, in quotes and, you know, the other co-collaborator. So I think part of me leaving Texas was, I, I want to be in a creative community that just has a lot of different voices and a lot of, a lot going on.
[00:49:15] Danny: Yeah. Wild to think back then there was only two people. Now there's too many things that you want to do, and you're surrounded by too many people and you're trying to not filter, but you're trying to surround yourself with the right people. It's like you're in a position where there's not enough people.
Now you're in a position where there's too much people or too many people, should I say. And you can never win, but I'm trying this new thing where I end off the conversation with five questions. Pretty easy questions. Nothing that's gonna rack your brain, and if it racks your brain, just move on.
Don't worry about it.
All right, five questions. I haven't come up with a good segment name. So we're just going with five questions.
Question one. Where are you most creative?
[00:49:53] Jordan: In front of a blank sheet of paper yeah, that's where I'm the most creative. Or, just in sitting in the shower, like the white noise. That's the word that I get most thoughts. You know, when you, when you lay in bed, you've had a
coffee. Sorry.
[00:50:05] Danny: An hour later, an hour later, or ...
[00:50:07] Jordan: Yeah.
[00:50:09] Danny: Two hours later. When you have ideas in the shower, how do you capture.
[00:50:13] Jordan: Uh, I just clinging onto them. I hope I remember when I hop out. Yeah.
[00:50:18] Danny: All right. Cool. Question number two. What's your favorite book?
[00:50:20] Jordan: Mistborn by Brandon Sanderson. That is a book that's part of a trilogy. And that, that trilogy is, is one of my favorites. I have many favorite books, um, or Ender's, Sorry. I'll do two. Or
Ender's
[00:50:32] Danny: Ender's game. Nice. What are the three most important apps on your phone?
[00:50:36] Jordan: Um, TikTok, TikTok texting and probably Spotify.
[00:50:42] Danny: All right, cool. Two more. Who is a creator that if you could right now, you would invest in for the future?
And for everyone listening who's actually friends with Jordan and good friends with him, if he doesn't choose you, it doesn't mean that he wouldn't invest in you. This is just, yeah,
[00:50:57] Jordan: Don't put that, pressure on me, man. What is kind of good about this question is I know a lot of creators that are already like, doing their thing. They've already found an audience and they're already like really happy with it. I'm like really interested to see our mutual friend. He just opened up the ice cream shop with Dylan.
I think he's business and like operator minded, but also has a creative side and he started learning animation and some other things I'm kind of excited to see like him kind of delve more into that, that creative world.
[00:51:28] Danny: Sick. All right, cool. Second question, which kind of or last question should I say? Which goes off of that question, and it might put you in a tough spot as well, but also for everyone listening, the answer does not mean it's the only person who is a creator that you think is underrated right now.
And they could be big. Like I, I had a previous guest saying, Gary Vader Chuck is still underrated.
[00:51:51] Jordan: I think Gary's got plenty of ratings. He's, Yeah, I used to work for him. So it's, it's funny. what was the creator? She's a friend of mine. She's been in a video, her name's Sarah Davis. She goes by DJ Dave. Her music is some of my favorite and I think it's only gonna like, take off.
She started like booking more and more shows. So she's not a video creator, but she's a musician who, like, her potential is just, nuts. I mean really anybody in my videos, like I really believe in like what they're doing and so, it's cool making a video of people now maybe like months and months ago, and then checking in, like, you know, looking at 'em again and they've, they're at a whole new place, so it's exciting.
[00:52:32] Danny: Yeah, man. Very very cool. Well, dude, it has been an awesome conversation. Thank you for coming on. Thank you for being open with all this. I think it's cool to be in August 30th, 2022. To project out where this could all go in only five years, which is still, it feels long, but it's super short. Is crazy.
And then to project out where, where you'll end up being in like 25 when we both have kids. Like what you'll be doing and who you'll inspire is super cool, but thanks for the time. And big fan of what you get up to.
[00:52:59] Jordan: Thanks man. Thanks for having me on. And, uh, if you're still doing this in five years, we can have a recap episode if you want.
[00:53:04] Danny: I wish this could have gone on longer. It is so cool to see someone thrive in this creator space that's so different, or the output is so different from what usually comes to mind when you say creator especially when you say influencer. Again, the thing that I can't get over is that he can do. Everything himself.
He builds the sets himself, the editing, the animation. That's all him. The storytelling, that's him. And when you find someone who can bring three streets altogether in one intersection, It adds a level of value. It adds a layer of, I think, power that many other creators don't have, which is why I'm so excited to see where he goes.
And also, he's super early on in his journey. Yes, he might have over 700 K followers on TikTok, but I think if we project out three to five years, something much bigger is definitely gonna occur. So again, if you like the episode, leave a rating or review on Apple Podcasts on Spotify and as always, have an amazing weekend and we'll be back next week with another incredible interview.